Grass Soup InterChange
Discussion Prompts
[Message #1 11:31:34 AM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Hello, everyone--and congratulations for succesfully logging in to InterChange.
In your opinion, how does the actress scene demonstrate the Chinese proverb I've written on your "Questions to Consider" sheet?
(Also, one tip about InterChange messages: these messages often work best when you preface them with the name of the person you are addressing, for example "Alice, I agree with your comment about the cow and and the actress. How do you think.....")
[Message #2 04:22:36 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Hey everbody!!
[Message #3 04:23:13 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
what is up?
[Message #4 04:23:46 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
ryan knaga:
ryan is on
[Message #5 04:24:41 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
I like this already.
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Message #16 04:27:25 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
let's discuss watermelon
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[Message #31 04:31:13 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
What watermelon scene i dont remember it?
[Message #32 04:31:28 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Pgs. 209-224
[Message #33 04:31:38 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
jeff, when he escaped and ate all that watermelon from that old lady
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[Message #46 04:34:47 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
alice grimmelsman:
The intellectuals are not afraid to eat strange things, thus increasing their chances of survival. I personally found this disgusting.
[Message #47 04:34:52 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
how about the other 6 people in this class? STEPHANIE!
[Message #48 04:35:03 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Then again, that's normal for me so...
[Message #49 04:29:45 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
I'm here, Carly!
[Message #50 04:35:44 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
hey steph, let's talk about the brainwashing of zhang
[Message #51 04:35:50 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
i dont see why it is such a big deal that the old comissar eats duck. He is in charge after all and leaders have always had better food. Even when others are starving.
[Message #52 04:30:03 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Hi, people. My apologies for the password snafu: that everyone would need Artemis passwords to log on was news to me until this afternoon. But about the watermelon scene, Carly: what struck you about that scene?
[Message #53 04:36:07 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
alice grimmelsman:
Did anyone else find this book unpleasant?
[Message #54 04:36:08 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Well, I don't find that fact disgusting. I actually find it interesting. I mean, I won't consider myself to be an intellectual in that sence since there are things I can look at and say, There is no way I'll ever eat that.
[Message #55 04:36:46 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
can anyone explain why Zhang was so bother by the comissar eating duck.
[Message #56 04:37:02 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
about the watermelon scene...it's amazing that he found such happiness in that small escape. and then he didn't get into that much trouble. the only good thing that happened to him, basically.
[Message #57 04:37:13 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Chat line, we don't need no stinking chatline
[Message #58 04:37:22 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
the question on humanity and humor: during times of great turmoil and social upheaval, people need to turn to each other for support. It may seem strange to us that zhang's accounts are littered with humor, however being upbeat and comic about situations often helps some people get through rough times.
[Message #59 04:37:26 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
say that when you are starving desmond. Hunger is the best sauce they say
[Message #60 04:37:28 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
alice grimmelsman:
jeff- they were all starving
[Message #61 04:37:33 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Jeff stop discussing your bat
[Message #62 04:37:36 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
The guy was starving for god's sake! He thoguht the rest of the world was starving too.
[Message #63 04:31:56 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
chris kuhlman:
To anyone:Escape
Why do you think that more convicts did not try to escape?
[Message #64 04:37:45 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
because, the commissar was supposed to be one of the people, and when he found out he was eating duck...it kind of took that away.
[Message #65 04:32:11 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
Jeff, I think he was disturbed because the whole idea of communism is that everyone shares everything. There are no class divisions.
[Message #66 04:38:04 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
he lost some respect for him. (the commissar)
[Message #67 04:38:29 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Hmmm... I have to agree, it's a socialist country, that duck should have been shared among the people. Instead it went to one man, the Commissar.
[Message #68 04:38:36 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
If the did they would be hunted down and killed. prison is bad but to many its better than death
[Message #69 04:33:02 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Carly: about the ending: why dedicate this book, implicitly, to the young girl? And what parallels do you see with the watermelon scene? I see that both the mother and the old woman are bringers of food (and the old woman's breasts contrast with those that the author admired of the actress, and the teats of the cow that the author says always come to mind when he sees a young woman's breasts....
[Message #70 04:39:00 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
chris, i was kind of lost on that. first it talked about the convicts being the seeing eyes, and telling on people, and then later it talked about how the convicts could care less becase they were so hungry
[Message #71 04:39:13 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
How do you share one duck with the people?
[Message #72 04:39:34 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
England is a socialist country and do they share. HELL NO. China is a communist country , big difference
[Message #73 04:39:51 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
th girl was like the the prisoners, she was alone and he felt sorry for her.
[Message #74 04:39:58 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Good question. I don't think it's the pupose, but the principle Bill. Sorry Jeff, Communist society.
[Message #75 04:40:06 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
the young girl...she was not in this camp, she was an innocent child...and yet the horrors of the concentration camp life affected the rest of her life..
[Message #76 04:40:24 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
more on humor: during the time of the cultural revolution it was so strange that a country could show such respect and utter trust in one government. some people may have viewed their suffering as tribute to their country.
[Message #77 04:40:26 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
There is no such thing as a classless society unless you live like the kalahari Bushmen
[Message #78 04:34:46 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
Good point, Carly.
[Message #79 04:40:37 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
zhang feels for her, the dedication at the end was probably just a small thing that he could do for her
[Message #80 04:40:42 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Agreed
[Message #81 04:40:46 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
i agree
[Message #82 04:40:56 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
agree three
[Message #83 04:41:00 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
......True...
[Message #84 04:41:02 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
classes are an inevitable part of society
[Message #85 04:35:22 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Chris: well, there's a lot of mention of thought control: the divide and conquer mentality that if you keep people informing on one another, no one can organize and beat the ruling body of the camps. Also, does it seem that the author himself had a sense of "learned helplessness"? That's name for a syndrome for people (or animals) who are so broken down that they won't help themselves even when they can. The risk-taking, problem-solving mentality gets basically shot.
[Message #86 04:41:14 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
What are we agreeing about?
[Message #87 04:35:29 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
That is true, Jeff. Communism does not work because the world is not perfect. It is full of greed, lust, etc.
[Message #88 04:41:40 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Very True
[Message #89 04:41:46 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
Human nature doesnt allow for the success of communism
[Message #90 04:41:46 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
cut the duck into really really small peices
[Message #91 04:42:02 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Is this what you normally talk about in class?
[Message #92 04:42:04 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
get off the duck people!
[Message #93 04:42:06 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
good idea jeff.
[Message #94 04:42:23 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
No communism is a thoery that cant work. A bad thoery i might add
[Message #95 04:42:31 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Those would be really tiny pieces
[Message #96 04:42:35 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
nicholas burkhart:
i like the actress scene. she was working her mojo and he was recieving
some mojo and together there was a large cross-mojonation. perhaps one of the most de-lite full scenes in the book. its little brief seconds in your life that you think of. then he saw the red flag coming out of her mouth (in his imagination). the only reference to sexuality in the book. and zhang wrote alot of books on sex. but i see where he's coming from here.that is why it is:
my favorite part o' the book!
[Message #97 04:42:40 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Yes, classes are inevitable. That's the way life is. You'll always have someone who wants to be better than everone else. Which technically is what the class structure is. One person saying they're better on account of the fact that they have more money.
[Message #98 04:42:42 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
yes bill
[Message #99 04:42:43 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
after reading the second part, does anybody STILL think that he was cutting the good beats on purpose?
[Message #100 04:42:55 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
communism will be completely demolished by the year 2010
[Message #101 04:37:24 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Ceres: What scenes struck you as funny? I thought the watermelon scene was hilarious. I retold the story to a friend as soon as I read it. That, and the actress scene, too (the 23--year-old, naive narrator running away and later fantasizing not about sex, but about *eating* with the actress struck me as quaint....and funny.
[Message #102 04:43:20 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
Not likely. Fanatics die hard.
[Message #103 04:43:20 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
I think he was cutting the beets on purpose......
[Message #104 04:43:30 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
I'm begining to wish I had read this book.
[Message #105 04:43:32 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
mojo?
[Message #106 04:43:34 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Exactly Jeff.
[Message #107 04:43:51 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
nicholas burkhart:
susan, communism will not be destoyed.
societies will always look new ways to organize
and communism looks good in theory.
[Message #108 04:43:52 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Mojo?
[Message #109 04:43:54 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
Thank you des
[Message #110 04:43:59 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Well, whenever you want to borrow my copy Bill, just ask.
[Message #111 04:43:59 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
alice grimmelsman:
When people are hungry, all they can think about is food, which is relatively harmless. It keeps them from thinking about anything that could get them in trouble, or questioning authorities who are the source of what little nourishment they have. Just a thought...
[Message #112 04:44:14 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
K
[Message #113 04:44:22 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
nicholas burkhart:
yeah, baby. mojo.
[Message #114 04:44:32 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
What do the intellectuals contribute in china
[Message #115 04:44:46 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Yeah, in theory nicholas. There are lots of things that look good in theory.
[Message #116 04:44:48 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
I found it interesting to her Prof say that he wrote alot of sex novels after this. I find this strnge because in the book he seems repulsed by women becuase they remind him of his years in the camps.....
[Message #117 04:44:53 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
i didn't find this book funny in the least!
[Message #118 04:44:57 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
maybe i'm weird.
[Message #119 04:45:04 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Why did people get mad at this guy for eating a duck. I thought that was what they were there for.
[Message #120 04:45:26 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
nicholas burkhart:
and thats why communism will stay alive somewhere.
its hard to break communism.
[Message #121 04:45:32 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
because this guy was a "man of the people" (or so-called) billy bob
[Message #122 04:45:37 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
i agree...the actress scene was funny...a little ironic...i definately thought he was going to think about sex, but his preoccupation with food was unexpected
[Message #123 04:45:42 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Bill go back a few. We explained that by message 70 something I think.
[Message #124 04:46:07 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
On paper, communism looks good! My teacher in high school said that everyone will be a communist for at least 5 minutes. In working reality, nobody has been able to set it up correctly...
[Message #125 04:46:08 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
sorry, 60 something.
[Message #126 04:46:12 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
OK so I missed a bit. sue me.
[Message #127 04:40:31 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
chris kuhlman:
To Nicholas:
I agree with you that this was a very important part in the book. It made me really think about the reallity of the convicts' situations in being in a camp away from their wives or someone they loved.
[Message #128 04:46:25 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
hey susan, do you think zhang was brainwashed?
[Message #129 04:40:43 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
I didn't think the actress scene was humorous, but I thought it was weird that he didn't connect her actions with sex.
[Message #130 04:46:41 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
and he was in charge after all , i say let him eat the duck. i zhang didnt like that he should have asked for some. In the spirit of sharing with the people(chuckle)
[Message #131 04:41:01 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
I think Zhang was brainwashed, Carly.
[Message #132 04:46:57 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
chris: you're right. i didn't really even think about the nature of their loved ones. he doesn't really base his thoughts on it
[Message #133 04:47:07 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
communism really is a lovely idea...one that seems so perfect, but i dont think people could be happy in a communist society
[Message #134 04:47:08 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
he was to hungry to be horny
[Message #135 04:41:32 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Anyone: do you think Zhang is blaming himself, partly, and fellow intellectuals for buying in to their reform? He recounts ultimate respect for ridiculous logic: for rhetorical prowess, but paired with ridiculous logic...
[Message #136 04:47:23 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
Carly, no i don't think he was brianwashed but I do believe he was broken down...
[Message #137 04:47:24 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Man, this is like CC, except I don't get to yell at people and scare the crap out of my class.
[Message #138 04:47:46 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
alice grimmelsman:
The actress scene disturbed me. But then again, I am easily disturbed.
[Message #139 04:47:56 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
the community identity and sharing of resources is good to an extent, but in a way individualism is challanged too
[Message #140 04:48:10 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
how is communism a good idea. Every one is equal. That is crap. I rufuse to be equal with a complete idiot. That is why I am better than Bill
[Message #141 04:42:28 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
That is true, Jeff; but what did he think she was doing. Why was she so horny? She was starving, too; right?
[Message #142 04:48:23 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Anyways. Well, there's one thing that's possibly for certain, this almost proves the hierarchy of needs. Dammned if I can remember whose it was. That basic needs such as food is needed before love and saftey, etc. They people running the camp knew that... That's probably how they kept the people in line.
[Message #143 04:48:25 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
i didn't know what was going on in the actress scene until i read it like 3 times. i couldn't get the imagery right.
[Message #144 04:42:41 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Bill: Hi--and wecome to our class discussion--but who are you? Have you been reading Grass Soup also?
[Message #145 04:48:40 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
why are you easily disturbed Alice?
[Message #146 04:49:19 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
i was disturbed too alice (in wonderland)
[Message #147 04:49:20 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
alice grimmelsman:
I don't know, Jeff. I cry at Disney movies. I'm not sure.
[Message #148 04:49:27 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
good point desmond. Basic Bology and Psychology.
[Message #149 04:49:29 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
What is the difference between brainwashing someone and breaking them down. The results are the same; you wind up with a mindless Zombie who will do anything you tell him.
[Message #150 04:49:34 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
biology
[Message #151 04:49:36 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
nicholas burkhart:
carly...
it took a couple of reads for me too.
but i think it was one of the most telling parts of the book.
[Message #152 04:49:39 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
this book was meant to disturb, Jeff!
[Message #153 04:49:41 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
i do feel sorry for him since he was thinking of the food and no the opportunity that come about with the actress....
[Message #154 04:49:47 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
I want one ....or maybe two
[Message #155 04:50:13 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Let me rephrase myself, that's probably why the prisoners didn't try to escape. It was one of the ways they broke the prisoners. By denying them suficient food.
[Message #156 04:44:28 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
Do you think that was the whole intention of the book, Carly?
[Message #157 04:50:22 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
exactly bill. (message 149)
[Message #158 04:51:05 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
nicholas burkhart:
bill is right on. (m# 149)
[Message #159 04:51:11 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
Really. I thought i was lame.
But then again I am a history major with a specialty in war. After reading some of the stuff that I have this book is not really that big of a deal.
[Message #160 04:51:16 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
No, I haven't been reading it. I'm a friend of Jeff's and he invited me to come see what his english class, scince I'm inchrist college. This really isn't that different, except for the computers.
[Message #161 04:51:26 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
I believe that his spirit was broke.. there was the conversation with Ma that made alot of sense.. The only way to get the whole counrty to reform is to make them go hungry... this is what I'm saying
[Message #162 04:51:32 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
stephanie, basically, to tell the story of a terribly corrupt government, and the horrors that destroying the human spirit will do
[Message #163 04:51:38 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
One or two what, Jeff?
[Message #164 04:46:02 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
chris kuhlman:
Stephanie:
I think that he did not realize what she was doing because he was young and probably had never experienced anything of that sort in his life before.
[Message #165 04:46:03 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
Carly, I don't think the prisoners had a chance to not be brainwashed. Do you? I think either they died or they were brainwashed.
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Message #171 04:52:43 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
they were definitely brainwashed. would you stick up for that government? and yet, with everything they did, they showed respect to their leaders.
[Message #172 04:52:46 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
It your charm bill
[Message #173 04:52:51 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
See, Bill, we're much cooler than CC people.
[Message #174 04:47:11 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Carly: but you eventually *did* get it, right, when the author explained that he didn't know what French kissing was? Does the proverb "lust is only possible on a full stomach" work here?
[Message #175 04:53:12 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
hah
[Message #176 04:53:15 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Jeff, you're not allowed to have a Zombie. You'd just abuse it and use it for a chew toy.
[Message #177 04:53:38 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
LOL
[Message #178 04:53:42 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Betsy, I'll have to say yes, again see message 142.
[Message #179 04:53:44 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
yes, i think after thinking about it...this scene shows very well the pyramid of needs, and shows that lust isn't ALWAYS on the minds of people
[Message #180 04:47:56 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Desmond: did you like the character called "Ma", then--and if so, why?
[Message #181 04:48:08 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
Carly:
No kidding; but, like I said before, I don't think they had a chance to not be brainwashed.
[Message #182 04:53:58 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
I think so. Lust is a luxury not really all that necessay for survival
[Message #183 04:54:31 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
they didn't at all. the entire chinese population was brainwashed.
[Message #184 04:54:32 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
i think that in a way the whole cultural revolution was a way of brainwashing people...people were not allowed freedom of speech or expression yet they were led to believe that this was good, a way to honor mao and respect their government
[Message #185 04:54:38 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
That is true Jeff. Look at animals... they don't need lust ...
[Message #186 04:54:41 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
even people who WEREN'T in the camps
[Message #187 04:54:50 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Hang on with that question. More stuff of my major coming up. Yes Jeff, you're right, for the nth time, see the message #152.
[Message #188 04:54:50 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
What is the point of Communism
[Message #189 04:54:51 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
nicholas burkhart:
yes. lust is a "sunny day" prospect.
im kind of hungry right now.
[Message #190 04:55:09 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Point of Communism... There is none?
[Message #191 04:55:12 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
alice grimmelsman:
I thought Ma was cool and outspoken. He came from a very different background from most of the others.
[Message #192 04:49:32 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
Prof: I think the probverb definitely applies in this case. It seems as if this is the only time in Zhang's life when he's not thinking about sex. Maybe this experience is part of the reason why he writes about it so much later.
[Message #193 04:55:22 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
nick, "sunny day" prospect? explain.
[Message #194 04:55:27 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
instinct is all you need. instict says , stop being hungry then worry about the other stuff.
[Message #195 04:55:33 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
Errr, message 142.
[Message #196 04:55:35 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
if you were not in areement with the government...you were an enemy and you would be killed
[Message #197 04:55:40 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Well, I suppose people in Communist contries could avoid brainwashing, but they'd have to either kill themselves or already be in the process of moving when the communists came into power.
[Message #198 04:50:12 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
I agree, Bill
[Message #199 04:56:01 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
ma made alot of sense... he brought up some very good points about the reasons behind the reform...
[Message #200 04:56:06 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
The hierarchy of needs Jeff. Again, like you said basic Biology and Psychology.
[Message #201 04:56:06 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
Ma was a very good character. i think his purpose was to show the difference between the average (brainwashed) chinese person and somebody who had the courage to keep his head.
[Message #202 04:50:19 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Susan--what do you think about Zhang's suggestion that the actress's pink tongue (and hence, her recognition of his humanity) was a "true red flag"--as Zhang says, not of Communism, but of an earthly paradise?
[Message #203 04:56:11 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
there was no real choice involved...if you wanted to live you had to, to some extent, conform to the rules of the government
[Message #204 04:56:16 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Ceres, why are you being an anarch?
[Message #205 04:56:17 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
nicholas burkhart:
the point of communism is absolute equality.
no class structure.
everyone is equal.
great idea, poor concept, and in my opinion:
not possible.
[Message #206 04:56:27 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
I hear the french are revolting
[Message #207 04:51:01 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
Exactly, Ceres.
[Message #208 04:56:58 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
What is the point in that. Boring. I like thinking for myself
[Message #209 04:57:07 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
I guess I'd have to agree with you Stephanie, that could be why he wrote more sex later.
[Message #210 04:51:19 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
chris kuhlman:
Susan:
Why do you think he should have done anything with the women? I think he was better off not even thinking about that sort of thing.
[Message #211 04:51:20 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Nick--Nick C., that is:
Just wanted to know that I double-checked the date of the May Fourth Movement, and it was, indeed from 1917-21: those were key years in the formation of the KMT and, in a nascent form, the CCP.
[Message #212 04:57:12 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
No, just ugly
[Message #213 04:57:17 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
actually their mostly just rude
[Message #214 04:57:19 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
No Jeff, they're just rude.
[Message #215 04:51:32 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
I agree, Nick. It's not possible because it requires humans to be perfect.
[Message #216 04:51:56 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Nick B: so did the class structure of the camps strike you as ironic?
[Message #217 04:58:18 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
---------------------------------
carly skvarce:
betsy, i never thought about that. but yes, the camp structure is very ironic
[Message #218 04:58:19 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
And humans are not perfect... Well, except me, but... we won't get into that.
[Message #219 04:58:19 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Who the heck is saying humans are or even have the potential to be perfect?
[Message #220 04:58:39 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
alice grimmelsman:
What was the deal with the long hairs on Zhang's deceased bunkmate?
[Message #221 04:58:39 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
I have a question. Do intellectuals serve a purpose?
[Message #222 04:58:53 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
Des, don't try to be arrogant. it really doesn't work
[Message #223 04:58:55 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
Dont even get me started Desmond.
[Message #224 04:58:57 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
bill, i dont think that the government has a right to censor people...not anarchy...just respect
[Message #225 04:59:00 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
nicholas burkhart:
prof- yes, just another way to divide themselves.
[Message #226 04:59:02 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
Prof: i think that under different circumstances, he would have found that tounge to be incredibly lustful and he would have been too as a resoult. But since he was concentrating on other things, it didn't matter to him until he grew up and realized the chance he missed.
[Message #227 04:53:14 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
Intellectuals expand the minds of the people.
[Message #228 04:53:31 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Carly: did Ma have an advantage, as the narrator says, in being better fed than everyone else? That is, is critical thinking only possible on an empty stomach? And *was* Ma hypocritical: judging others in the thought lineup, but an absolute, unabashed believer who would pronounce the most dangerous of sedition in private?
[Message #229 04:59:21 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
I don't know, I'll have to think about it, Jeff
[Message #230 04:59:31 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
So does a club or a mace
[Message #231 04:59:37 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
i just thought of something...
what if the girl at the end...zhang sort of paralleled to himself?
he was able to get on with his life, build it back up and such
and maybe it's a small wish that she was able to do the same.
[Message #232 04:59:47 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
Chirs: I never said he should do anything with the woman...
[Message #233 04:54:22 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Stephanie: your theory sounds reasonable.
[Message #234 05:00:22 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Desmond Woolston:
We *do* have the potential to be perfect, but under whose eyes? To one person perfect may mean the status quo.
[Message #235 05:00:30 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
Does the mind need to be expanded? Why. Lets all go climb back into the trees.
[Message #236 05:00:42 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
Trolls are perfect.
[Message #237 05:00:57 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
nicholas burkhart:
what IS up with the long hairs on his bunkmate?
[Message #238 05:01:04 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
alice grimmelsman:
Not to rain on everyone's parade, but I think it's almost time to go...
[Message #239 05:01:12 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
carly skvarce:
besty, good point (#228) if Ma wasn't starving (which he wasn't) then he could think without having to rely on the government
[Message #240 05:01:14 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
He was neurotic.
[Message #241 04:55:37 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Stephanie Stroman:
Communists are afraid of having the people's minds expanded because it means they might start thinking for themselves and wanting more than total equality.
[Message #242 05:01:26 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
ryan knaga:
how could you expand your mind in a REFORM camp.
i dont think you could.
[Message #243 05:01:31 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
Desmond, good point
[Message #244 04:55:45 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Jeff: well, would you be in college if intellectuals didn't serve a purpose? What *do* history majors offer society?
[Message #245 05:01:40 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
[Message #246 05:01:42 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Susan Gasaway:
After death, hair tends to keep growing and for some reason grows really quickly....
[Message #247 05:01:51 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
i study people killing people.
[Message #248 05:01:57 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
bill cherry:
I reaaally wish i knew what this book was about. so far all I've peiced together is that some guy ate a duck, for which he got brainwashed(or broken down) nto having sex(?) with some woman.
[Message #249 05:02:05 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Ceres Krohn:
perfection in the normal sense is not possible but different people may define perfection differently
[Message #250 05:02:14 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
Communist China Bill.
--------------------------------------------------------------
[Message #261 05:03:27 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
Jeff Isaak:
See ya all later. Bye now.
[Message #262 05:03:38 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
ikupa mwanjabala:
Yes;he was a honourable man in his time,because even when he yelled at the cons for doing a bad job.He would then help them with the cleani;so although he was a guard with a strict attidude he was full of humanity and honour.
[Message #263 04:59:01 PM, Friday, February 13, 1998]
elizabeth burow-flak:
Alice--you're right...See you all on Monday....
